The Mess Hall

Mike Kostyo (00:00)
On this episode of The Mess Hall, we discuss the recent research we did that surprised us, and then we sit down for a conversation with Frank Beard, an expert on convenience stores. We talk about what the US can learn from Japanese convenience stores, why street food could be a hidden opportunity, and the trend that Beard thinks people are pretending to like.

Mike Kostyo (00:55)
So we had done an update of our 2026 consumer needs date survey. So it's the survey that we've talked a lot about on our podcast. We fielded it last November. It looks at how people are feeling as we head into the next year. And so we did an update. we started fielding it end of May and it came out of the field in early June. So kind of an update on what consumers are we're not consumers. We had this, which is it's

Own conversation about what we call this report next year, but what people are thinking about

Maeve Webster (01:27)
Yeah, so hard.

Mike Kostyo (01:29)
when it comes to food and their purchasing decisions and why they're making them and what they're thinking about the months ahead. So it's super fresh data. when I say I came out of the field literally a couple weeks ago, and we just had an opportunity to look at it. And so we thought we would each take a look at it and find one surprising finding to share. And so I'll turn it over to you.

⁓ for the one that you thought was most surprising.

Maeve Webster (01:54)
Okay, it's actually a set of two questions, but on an And it was right at the beginning. And I have to say I was shocked at the sentiment findings from the survey.

Mike Kostyo (01:57)
⁓ Okay.

I thought you would choose that, yeah.

Maeve Webster (02:07)
had two questions. The first one was thinking about how 2026 has gone so far, which is a very loaded question. Has it met your expectations from the start of the year? And I was surprised by two things. One, that the top two box or the you're like better than expected was almost equal, not too far off from those who said it was worse than expected.

Mike Kostyo (02:25)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (02:32)
I would have absolutely expected to skew far more to the worst than expected. And just from all this. And this is not just the way people are behaving, but it's like the news stories and social media and you know, which just amplifies the negative, not that there hasn't been plenty to be a little less than happy about. ⁓ so that was the first one. But the younger consumers, Gen Z and millennials, that the majority of them, not not even the largest share, but the majority actually felt that it was better than expected.

Mike Kostyo (02:36)
Yeah.

Yum.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Wow. Yeah, I did not have a chance to look at the demographic skews, so I didn't see that the younger consumers thought. That's really interesting. Yeah.

Maeve Webster (03:10)
It it fascinating. So

30% of the total sample said that it was better than expected to some degree, right? For Gen Z, I'm looking at it right now. It was okay, not actually, I I take that back. Gen Z was not a majority, but it was the largest share. So that was 45%. Far outweighing any other sentiment. millennials is over half or just at half, which is 50%.

Mike Kostyo (03:17)
Mm-hmm mm.

Mm-hmm.

Still.

Yeah. Yeah.

Wow,

huh.

Maeve Webster (03:40)
I know, so I misspoke earlier. But still, I mean both of them, and that's statistically significantly higher than the total and significantly higher than older generations. Yeah. Really, really fascinating stuff. and that I yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Mike Kostyo (03:42)
Mm. Still.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Well,

I was just gonna say that's so interesting too, because we always ask this question again. Cause we did it last year and we thought the same thing, everybody heads into the year. They feel so positive. I got my resolutions, it's gonna be a fresh start. And then inevitably the news is horrible, everything seems so bad. So we fielded the question again last year, which is probably what you're about to talk about.

Maeve Webster (04:08)
And then

Mike Kostyo (04:16)
And we saw again that actually people felt pretty positive even mid year last year. so I think, this idea that everybody's so down on the dumps and everything's so horrible. I we have to reality check that sometimes.

Maeve Webster (04:29)
And I think it is very easy for everybody individually to r to read any kind of data or or superimpose their expectations on everything, right? Whether it's your political position, whether it's your own just kind of emotional, you know, state of being at the at the time. I think it's very easy to assume that everybody else is feeling the same way you do. So I I I agree with you. I think we always need to reality check ourselves, ⁓ regardless of who you are and what you do, that you are not superimposing your own.

Mike Kostyo (04:37)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (04:57)
Assumptions on the way you read data, the way you design surveys, and all of that, right? You have to always keep an open mind that it could be vastly different than what you expect. So to your point, the second question was what are the top three emotions you are feeling about the rest of 2026? The way we phrased it for the beginning of the year was heading into 2026. Right. So overall, I'm looking at the findings right now, from the total, the number one was still hopeful,

Mike Kostyo (04:58)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

okay, okay.

Maeve Webster (05:26)
You know, ⁓ I mean, it's it's nice. to be honest with you, it's nice to see that. Now, anxious was pretty close behind at I think you're right. Uncertain, I think, is a little higher at 36%, and excited at this again, both the surprising, but also backing up what we just talked about with the other question for Gen Z.

Mike Kostyo (05:28)
Yeah.

Which I think was the second one when we fielded it earlier. Yeah.

Okay.

Maeve Webster (05:51)
Statistically significantly more likely than the total in older generations to be excited at 43% versus 27%. ⁓ hopeful, 51% over 44. And overwhelmed, which is lower percentage-wise, 23%, but that is higher than 17% for the total. For younger millennials, same thing. Excited.

Mike Kostyo (05:59)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (06:16)
And optimistic are the top. And so this is this gets to my, and I know I've said this before in some presentations. In my opinion, I think America, as a broad cultural statement, right? I do think America culturally is an I think we just err on the side of wanting to be optimistic. I think that's kind of been our history. ⁓ I think that's definitely taken a hit over few years. Like I absolutely think it's been battered.

Mike Kostyo (06:17)
Hmm hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I agree with you, yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yes. Which you've seen in

the data, absolutely, yes.

Maeve Webster (06:45)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that we're fighting more to be that, but I think we default to it. and I think it's also it makes me feel good that younger consumers are feeling that because if they stop feeling it and the older generations are feeling it, then I think we're in a world of trouble.

Mike Kostyo (06:50)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I think too, because I was thinking of the timing of it, and like the thing that you keep hearing right now is that the younger generations are graduating and they're all really scared of the future and the job market and whether they're gonna be able to earn enough to buy a house and have a family and do all of those things. And I think there probably is that fear in, a good percentage of them.

Maeve Webster (07:03)
So

Mike Kostyo (07:23)
But on the same token, yeah, I think that is a hopeful time of your life. You are proud of graduating and the accomplishments that you've had, and you have your life ahead of you. And I think so often now the algorithm feeds us the most negative and news. And so when you're on your phone for 10 hours, 12 hours, like some of these generations are, and that's all you're seeing, it is the most negative stuff all the time.

Maeve Webster (07:33)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mike Kostyo (07:50)
But then a lot of times when you ask somebody, okay, what's the the best thing that you did in the past day? What are the things in your life that make you hopeful or make you excited? It's the personal accomplishments, it's having meals with other people, it's the relationships in your life. And so we often don't test for that type of stuff. ⁓ we do. We talk about that type of stuff, but that is what the food industry does. And so I don't know. I think there's a disconnect also between

Maeve Webster (08:04)
I don't know.

Mike Kostyo (08:17)
Just a the way that people are feeling ⁓ in aggregate with some of these larger issues as opposed to in their personal life what may be going on at a more personal level somehow.

Maeve Webster (08:23)
Yeah.

Yeah. And I do think you see that optimism with the kind of products that younger consumers are drawn to. Bright colors, vibrant textures, ⁓ dynamic, exciting. And none of that would be resonating if there was an inherent pessimism or anxiety or that kind of negative vibe with younger consumers. I think you just simply wouldn't see it. I think the fact that they continue to be drawn to

Mike Kostyo (08:49)
Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (08:56)
Elements that are inherently optimistic and more exciting innovation, I think speaks to that optimism.

Mike Kostyo (09:02)
Well and I was just gonna say it does matter when it comes to what we make as the food industry.

As we talked about last year when our consumer need for the year was give me something new, it was all predicated on this idea that consumers were hopeful again. They were excited for new ingredients, flavors, dishes, And so right now, when if in our heads we think everybody's anxious and depressed, all we make is comfort foods and the same stuff over and It's actually not backed up by the data and what consumers probably need right now.

Maeve Webster (09:32)
And right. Which is the problem because you and I know that we're constantly asked about nostalgia and comfort and and erring on the side of that. And that's continues to be big. And you read articles and you see papers, and they're all talking about that. And I think it's because it's so easy. I think it's the lowest hanging fruit, innovation-wise, in many cases. I mean, for some brands, it's right on target, and that's great for those brands, right? So that that makes a lot of sense.

Mike Kostyo (09:34)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Maeve Webster (10:00)
But if you are simply erring on the side of comfort and nostalgia because it's simply gonna be an easier target innovation wise, you are missing the bigger picture.

Mike Kostyo (10:06)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I wonder too if our floor is lower at this point, having gone through COVID and we're just gonna be like we got through that. I feel pretty darn hopeful as long as we don't have another pandemic going on, you know, which knock on wood with everything. But you know, at this point, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure, I'm excited. Half the country's not locked up. Yeah. God. Yeah.

Maeve Webster (10:15)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

I mean honestly.

you right like the bar is so low that any kind of positive news it's like look at that things are great.

The haunted boat didn't create another pandemic? Hey, yeah,

bad co seriously. Right, that's exactly what happens.

Mike Kostyo (10:39)
Yeah. Knock on wood. Seriously. ⁓ Okay, well, so the the

the data point that surprised me. So I'm doing a webinar tomorrow on ultra processed foods. So we had included some questions, some follow-up questions, and then some new questions in this survey on ultra processed foods. And the number one question that I was interested in.

was whether people consider GMOs to be ultra processed or if something, you know, is genetically multi modified, does that mean that it's ultra processed? Because we had asked this question and we talked about it on a previous episode, where 12% of Gen Z said that apples were ultra processed. And again, it's not 90%, but it's not nothing. It's still a fairly large percentage. That right, exactly.

Maeve Webster (11:25)
Right. It's twelve percent more than it should be, really.

Mike Kostyo (11:28)
And so I there

there was nothing that I wanted to see more in the survey, but what did that mean to people? why were they thinking that apples were ultra processed? And so there was the one question that we asked, which was, of all of these factors, which ones do you think lead to something being considered ultra processed?

Maeve Webster (11:41)
Yeah.

Mike Kostyo (11:47)
And GMOs were number five. So I think it was 41% of people said that if something is genetically modified that it is ultra processed. So it put it in the top five. I think it was number five. And it was a huge number of options that we gave them, something like 2025 options. And it's interesting because most definitions within the industry. So there's a definition from Nova, which came out of Brazil years ago, I think something like two decades ago. But it's pretty well accepted at this point. It's what a lot of people use.

Maeve Webster (11:57)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mike Kostyo (12:17)
would not consider genetically modified foods to be ultra processed. They don't actually even include that in their discussion at all. And so you do have a disconnect between what consumers say or what people think are ultra processed and what leads to something being defined as ultra processed and what the industry does. And I think it's going to have to be a real discussion as we consider whether we come up with some type of federal regulations around this topic.

Maeve Webster (12:21)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

that's interesting about GMO, but I guess also what is it surprising? I mean, given how long we've been talking about GMO and what a fuss there has been at times about GMOs, regardless of what you think about it on one side or the other, that still I think 41% seems like that would be the percent that we would have seen 10 years ago, 15 years ago.

Mike Kostyo (12:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm, mm, mm.

Maeve Webster (13:10)
I don't know. I can't say that for sure, but I I don't think that's like changed a lot. So it's kind of interesting that maybe that share of the population that is worried about GMO continues to be worried, but it hasn't bled into other groups, maybe.

Mike Kostyo (13:12)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Well, yeah, I mean, I think you can be

worried about GMOs and you know, and that's a whole other episode. But whether you think that it's part of the definition of ultra processed, I think it's what's so difficult. Where I think it's this idea that almost anything that somebody considers bad makes it ultra processed. it very hard to define what ultra processed is, you know. I mean, like I said, we gave 25 different options.

Maeve Webster (13:32)
The weather you

Mm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mike Kostyo (13:50)
And there was a percentage of people that thought everything made something ultra processed. And actually more people thought that genetically modified foods made something ultra processed than being made in a factory made something ultra processed, which by the Nova de yeah, like by and by the Nova de definition, you literally like you have to make it in a factory, you know? And so by their definition, yeah, just a process exactly like.

Maeve Webster (14:05)
⁓ no.

Right. Thus the processing part.

Mike Kostyo (14:16)
And so I think it's it becomes really, really difficult to figure out. One, so if we do decide we're going to come up with some type of regulatory framework for what ultra process is, do we include these types of things? Or if we don't, how do we educate people on the reasons why it was defined in this way and get them to accept it, which I think is the hard part about regulations in general, at least at this point.

Maeve Webster (14:17)
What?

No we

sure. Well, I think the

skepticism over any kind of governmental base, and this is at any level of the government, right? Federal down to local, I think the skepticism around government at this point is going to make it very difficult, regardless of who's who's making the the definition, to make it difficult to be accepted by a majority of people. I I think the other problem though is that a lot of people

Mike Kostyo (14:46)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Which

I will say about that real quick too, 'cause we did ask that question. Would you accept a government definition? And it wasn't a huge percentage as you would expect. Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Maeve Webster (15:11)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, no. I w I I wouldn't expect that to be the case. ⁓

it would be interesting to see what that's like generationally. We so this this data is so new, we haven't even had a chance to really dive in. ⁓ so for those of you listening, you are literally the first people to hear anything about this data. But I think the other the other challenge with GMO and ultra processing, I think the majority of people like to think that they're worried about it or that they're concerned about it, or they're gonna make a de definition or a decision based on that.

Mike Kostyo (15:19)
Yes. Yes, yes.

Literally. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (15:39)
And the majority won't. I mean, you're gonna have a share who's always gonna educate themselves, become concerned for one reason or another about one thing or another, and that's fine. But I think the majority of people will say, ⁓ that's interesting. And then when they go to the grocery store, they will make the same decisions that they've been making, for years.

Mike Kostyo (15:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And we did

ask that question too. We did ask, you know, have you changed your behaviors based on, ultra-processed foods and learning about them? And a huge number said yes. Yes, of course I but yes, this is one of those areas, health, where you see that all the time. It's all aspirational. now the number one thing that people said was that they were reading the label of packages more.

Maeve Webster (16:03)
Yeah.

Yeah, sure they did.

Yeah.

Mike Kostyo (16:17)
Which I can see that. I do yes, yeah, exactly. So I do think there's some of that. Now, yeah, whether they read it and then put it back on the shelf or, make an excuse to buy that bag of chips anyway, we'll see. But that's where I do think diaries would be really interesting. What do people actually do versus what they're saying they do around this topic?

Maeve Webster (16:18)
That I believe. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

I also

think that would surprise a lot of people because I think so many food decisions are, I'm gonna use the term thoughtless, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way, but I think they're habitual. They are because you've got a shopping list, because you need to gr get food, because you're hungry. You you're not thinking it actively through in a lot of cases. And so I think diaries surprise the people making the diaries as much as they inform the people asking for the diaries.

Mike Kostyo (16:41)
No, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Maeve Webster (17:01)
Because I think very often people don't really realize it until they have to write it down and track it and then all of a sudden say, wait a minute, how how on earth did I eat that many XYZs, you know, without knowing it? ⁓ you know, the other thing ⁓ the other thing about this whole ultra process, and you've given this example so many times, and I think it's a great one, is I think everybody would love to think that everything they eat is all natural, comes straight off of the tree.

Mike Kostyo (17:09)
Yeah. Right. Yes. Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (17:28)
Pulled out of the ground, minimal processing, no artificial anything. And that's a lovely aspirational world to live in. Right. But once you go to the grocery store and your example was Costco, tried to do that with their bread, sure it was as natural as possible. I mean, obviously you have to process to make bread. It's not picked off of a plant, but right. It's as as natural as it can possibly be. And that's all great. And everybody was excited. But the minute they bought it and it

Mike Kostyo (17:37)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. The bread plant.

Maeve Webster (17:57)
And it started molding two days in, everybody's ticked off. Everybody's upset. So this idea of all natural is lovely, but the vast majority of people do not understand that all natural goes bad fast. There's gonna be a lot of waste. You need to be buying in small amounts on a regular basis, eating exactly what you buy with very little storage options. And if you can do that, then that is fantastic for you. And that's wonderful. But the

Mike Kostyo (18:00)
Yes.

⁓ huh.

Maeve Webster (18:26)
vast, vast majority of Americans, if not people in the world, simply do not have the luxury of living that kind of life.

Mike Kostyo (18:34)
Well, and I'm glad you brought that example up because So we asked a question in the previous survey, which what would make it okay for something to include ultra-processed ingredients? And the number two answer was if it extends the shelf life. So exactly what you just said. But then the number one thing that people thought made something ultra-processed in this survey was if it had preservatives in it. And so exactly what you just said. It's a real trade-off that you're

Maeve Webster (18:47)
Sure.

Mike Kostyo (18:59)
Any individual company, any individual person is going to have to make what's that trade-off for you? I think it's particularly salient right now when everybody's talking about how expensive everything is. If that thing goes bad, if that great, artisan loaf of bread that a baker produced and doesn't have any preservatives goes bad in a day and you waste, three quarters of that loaf and now that money goes down the drain.

It's even more painful right now considering how expensive everything is.

Maeve Webster (19:29)
And I hate to be the one to say this, but I I hate to say it, but I do believe that in the survey question that you're talking about, where people said preservatives make something ultra processed, I legitimately do not think that a lot of people understand what preservatives are. Even though it says preserve in the name, I I don't think they're connecting the dots that preservatives help keep things fresh longer.

Mike Kostyo (19:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Mm-hmm,

mm-hmm. Yeah. Just a scary word.

Maeve Webster (19:56)
I think preservatives now that term

is now artificial, bad ingredients, even though the result is very, very positive functionally, once it's actually in the home. And so I think that there's a horrible disconnect between terms we use, even if they seem very intuitive, and the reality of what those terms mean once you get it at home and once you start using it and, you know, storing it and the whole thing. I I

Mike Kostyo (20:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (20:24)
I do think, and you and I have talked about this, we have a language problem in the industry. I think we make assumptions about what consumers understand. I think we use terms that seem innocuous and either don't translate or are not as innocuous as we think they are. And I think as an industry, we need to really rethink, even if preservatives are a fine word that has a very clear definition.

Mike Kostyo (20:32)
⁓ yes.

Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (20:48)
I think we really need to think about every single word we use, every single term, and is it as intuitive and understandable as we think it is?

Mike Kostyo (20:56)
I think the hard thing is going to be too, because I think a lot of times you do hear, if we just kind of explain to people, you do see so on some packaging the reason that things are in there. But we talk about all the time how inundated the average person is with information these days. It's gonna be a really hard lift if we're gonna try to educate every single consumer on what a monodiglyceride is versus, you know, kerakeenin or whatever it is.

Maeve Webster (21:02)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mike Kostyo (21:21)
I think that's gonna be really difficult. So I think we have to come up with some solutions that take into account how inundated with information people are these days when they're making a decision.

Maeve Webster (21:21)
Yeah,

Particularly with food, I honestly think most people don't want to feel like they have to be educated when they're eating. Eating should be a natural, relaxed, fun, formal, whatever it ends up being, but it shouldn't be complicated. It shouldn't take a lot of mental effort unless you unless you want it to be an elaborate, right? That's your choice that you're making an elaborate meal, then by all means. But I think ⁓ it more often than not, people just want it to be easy.

Mike Kostyo (21:38)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Maeve Webster (22:00)
Comfortable, fun, enjoyable, indulgent, whatever it ends up being, but not ⁓ you know, a lesson in science and food processing.

Mike Kostyo (22:09)
And that's what we need to solve for. So so you will see the results of yeah, that exactly. So you will see the results coming out over the next few months. We're gonna be releasing them. We're gonna release a few white papers, but we're really excited to dive even deeper into the data.

Maeve Webster (22:11)
But that is the opportunity, people.

Yeah, the data is very fascinating. Generally generationally, there's a lot of really interesting information in there.

Mike Kostyo (22:29)
Mm-hmm.

And we haven't even had a chance to go through ⁓ you know, demographics by political persuasion, by ⁓ income level. So that'll be real interesting as well. Yeah.

Maeve Webster (22:41)
Agreed. Yeah, so stay tuned.

Mike Kostyo (22:43)
Yes.

Mike Kostyo (22:58)
All right. So our guest for this episode is an expert. I almost said an expert in sea stores, which is true. When I think convenience stores, I automatically think of you, but just an expert in the industry overall, in what people want these days, in how we should develop really consumer-led locations that people shop at and purchase food from. But you have worked quite extensively in convenience stores. And that guest today is Frank Beard. So I will pass it over to you to introduce yourself.

Frank Beard (23:28)
Yeah. Hey, thanks for having me on. ⁓ big fan of your podcast. And gosh, I think we we had so much fun talking a few weeks ago before this. I think we're on the phone for like an hour and a half. my name is ⁓ Frank Beard. I'm based out of the w based out of the Des Moines, Iowa area. We live in West Des Moines, born and raised here, moved around a bit, but it's home and we love it here. But I I work with a lot of companies at work.

Mike Kostyo (23:34)
⁓ That's what led to this, exactly.

Frank Beard (23:52)
with convenience retailers, specifically retail tech companies. So ⁓ I've worked at everything from small startups to Silicon Valley startups. and actually coincidentally I'm starting my started my own thing recently. So I'm actually which I've been wanting to do for a few years and I figured, you know what? Something about turning 40 just makes it be like, you know, that's kind of what I want to do. So basically I'm doing

Mike Kostyo (24:04)
Yay.

Maeve Webster (24:04)
Yes!

Mike Kostyo (24:10)
Hmm.

Frank Beard (24:13)
B2B marketing and PR for companies that are serving the convenience store industry. It's one of those niche industries that, you know, a lot of companies will like come in with a marketing team and then they don't understand it. And it's hard because it's a, you know, pretty well-defined, total addressable market. And you kind of have to be able to talk to folks and know what they're looking for, know how they talk, understand the industry. ⁓ you see companies struggle with that. You see some companies candidly are just small startups and don't.

Maeve Webster (24:26)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (24:41)
Their marketing needs aren't a full-time marketing need. And I wanted to be able to be flexible and just be able to work with people on whatever arrangement is necessary to do really good work that you can feel proud of. ⁓ coincidentally, the branding, ⁓ and apologize, I actually did grow up with a speech impediment and sometimes struggle to say things surprisingly, but Conbini Strategy is a name of the company. It's actually a name I came up with like five years ago and started building branding for and then stopped. And so when I decided to do this, I was like, you know what?

Mike Kostyo (24:43)
Mm-hmm.

Love the name. Love it. Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (25:08)
That stuff was kind of good. Let me go back and take a look at it. And it just resonated. ⁓ I mean, candidly, like my family's background, we have a lot of like small business owners, craftsmen, tradesmen. You know, my dad owned a trade bindery and was, I mean, literally professional level woodsmith. my grandpa owned a commercial printing company. I've just always been around people who take pride in doing quality work and just putting your name on something you're proud of rather than scaling something that you're proud you scaled it, but you're not really proud of what it does. And

Mike Kostyo (25:20)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (25:37)
⁓ I think at the end of the day, you know, you got to look at yourself in the mirror and feel good about what you did. And it feels good to do good work for people. So as you can imagine with the name Conbini strategy, it's more than anything just a nod to stuff that I respect and aspire to, which is candidly a lot of what I've seen ⁓ in Japan. So and quickly, conbini, you convenience store. So

Maeve Webster (25:37)
Yeah.

Mike Kostyo (25:44)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (25:44)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

Mike Kostyo (25:56)
Well that's the ⁓ well now I think that leads right

Maeve Webster (25:58)
Thanks.

Mike Kostyo (26:00)
into the conversation, which like you said, we had had a conversation ⁓ about a month ago about Japanese konbini and just what a great job that they do. And obviously we're paying more attention to them in the US now. You've seen a ton of articles come out. Younger people, gravitate towards just, you know, Asian and Japanese culture overall. And so how much do you think it

Maeve Webster (26:02)
Yep.

Frank Beard (26:08)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kostyo (26:22)
We are going to learn from their culture and how seriously they take convenience stores. I've heard from the convenience store side of the industry, the whole gamut of things from yes, this is who we need to emulate. They are doing such a great job. They're, pushing us to up our game to we are America and we can never emulate that, and we're so different from their culture, and it's just not possible for us. So, what do you think we should learn from them and can learn from?

Frank Beard (26:49)
Yeah, that's interesting. I think, you know, sometimes we overestimate the degree to which we're different from each other. I mean, people are people at the end of the day, no matter where they're from. And I think everybody wakes up and wants something good to eat every day. I don't think I've ever met someone who wants to eat bad food. ⁓ you know, I mean, they may want to eat food that makes them feel good, that's bad for them, but that's a different thing. ⁓ and which I can totally relate to as someone who ate some pizza yesterday. But ⁓

Mike Kostyo (26:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Maeve Webster (27:07)
Completely different philosophy.

Frank Beard (27:16)
You know,

at the at the end of the day, I think people also confuse what makes Japanese convenience stores exceptional. When you read articles about it, people sometimes act like, it's a few hero items. They got the egg sandos, or they weirdly, I've met a lot of people who say, I want to go see them because of retail tech. And I'm like, My man, there's not a lot of consumer-facing retail tech in these stores. they feel like the store of the future from the 1990s. they're

Mike Kostyo (27:36)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (27:43)
Hmm.

Frank Beard (27:43)
Utilitarian plain buildings, ⁓ just not even that large, and they're just packed full of the most amazing products we've ever seen. And what gets me is like here in the United States, I think a lot of the innovation on food, ⁓ not exclusively, but does tend to be done by a lot of the smaller companies because some of the largest companies have sort of abdicated that and have they just haven't made a very big go at it. I mean, they've they've been growing stores, but not focusing on

Mike Kostyo (27:48)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (28:12)
How do we make the food exceptional? And so it's sort of that gap that everyone else can execute on to stand out if they don't have scale. Now, again, there's some larger companies that do pretty good. I think Sheets does a nice job. you know, they've they've they've been a leader in that space. Not to say they have everything figured out, but I mean, they've done a lot of stuff. They did touch screens before any of the QSRs ever did. I mean, they were like over a decade ahead on that trend in like the late 90s, which is cool. But when you go in the

Mike Kostyo (28:24)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (28:40)
Japanese convenience stores, you quickly see the entire market is led by three companies that have set a national standard for what good looks like. And you have to play by that standard, or you're just not going to be relevant. And but, you know, even when you go outside of 7-Eleven, Lawson, Family Mart, you know, go into stuff like Plusta from JR Railway. you know, see those in some of the big train stations. if you're going around the country and gosh, those places are great. I mean, we went in this like little Plusta store.

Mike Kostyo (29:04)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (29:10)
That had the most immaculate fruit sandos I think I've ever seen outside of a department store basement. And I just stuffed my face with those things. They were so good. But you know, it it's just those stores though, at the end of the day, they're they're they're just a convenience store. You know, so often this industry has a discussion about building the store of the future and they assume it has to become something other than what it already is. Those convenience stores in Japan are basic convenience stores.

Mike Kostyo (29:13)
Mm.

⁓ huh.

Maeve Webster (29:34)
Mm.

Frank Beard (29:38)
But they have actually fresh food delivered three to four times a day. They have creative, interesting products like 7 Eleven sells us creme brulee ice cream from another vendor in their freezer. I wish I would have discovered this sooner. ⁓ it's one of the best things I think I've ever eaten. I think it's ⁓ Hakaido milk. It's it it's just just like most amazing mouthfeel. And I creme brulee. So ⁓

Mike Kostyo (29:51)
Ha ha ha.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (30:01)
But that's the thing. It's just like the stores are exciting. They're fun. They're exciting. The products are relevant and they're designed for everybody. It is a firm, firmly mass market offer that salary men eat at tourist kids. You see kids walking around the cities, you know, going into these stores. Everybody shops there. ⁓ and according to one survey, a third of Japanese women say they eat three times or more per week at a convenience store. It's just it's it's like designed for daily living. And that's what's cool to me. So I I I think not to say that everything is directly, you know.

Mike Kostyo (30:18)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Wow, wow.

Maeve Webster (30:24)
Wow.

Frank Beard (30:32)
able to be, you know, imported into other countries, but I think the basic idea of what they're trying to do, you can find parallels that will work in American communities for the people who live here.

Maeve Webster (30:41)
Frank, one of the things, one of the reasons you get a lot of pushback on exactly what you're talking about, right? A store for everyday living and whether or not American convenience stores can aspire to be what Japanese can, a lot of the pushback ends up being around the definition of bubba and the assumptions about who bubba is. And for those of you listening who are not familiar with this term, this is an industry term, derogatory though it may be, the idea that it's blue collar men, typically younger,

Mike Kostyo (30:57)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Ha ha ha.

Maeve Webster (31:11)
who are not interested, to your point, in good food, that it's just convenience being the number one and price being the number two and taste and quality are way down there. What do you think of that? What do you think about the assumptions about who Bubba is, who Bubba will be, you know, in five or 10 years and how that is or is not holding the segment back?

Frank Beard (31:34)
So that's a really good question. coincidentally, I was talking about this with some folks the other day. we're doing a panel at the Summer Fancy Food Show here later this month and talking about like, hey, if or how can we get specialty food into America's convenience stores. And, you know, the fact is, like, the convenience store at the end of the day, like, you can't say, well, Bubba doesn't matter. Bubba's a customer. he lives in people's communities. ⁓ I mean, my my my stepdad, you know, was ⁓ worked at a utility company on the service side and

Mike Kostyo (31:47)
Mm, mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (32:04)
I tell you, those guys ate at a lot of convenience stores. They knew all the differences between every company, who sells what at lunch. But convenience stores are fundamentally a mass market ⁓ retail channel. You know, gro grocers can tailor to a specific socioeconomic background. They can tailor to a certain community. Dollar stores, well, they're not selling to everyone, and we know that. You know, I mean, the convenience store sells to everybody, especially in America, because they sell motor fuels and the entire business is built around selling motor fuels.

So you do have to be relevant to a mass market. But look, I mean, I would assume Bubba would like street tacos. I would assume Bubba would like love street tacos from a food truck. Guess what? So do I. I love street tacos from a food truck. And which kind of gets me into something like, you know, just we have actually two things. We have a misconception, I think, that making things better means making them bougie in upmarket.

Mike Kostyo (32:45)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (32:58)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (32:58)
And that dri and that just drives me up the wall. You know, I was

cooking dinner for a family member recently and I'm blanching some broccolini. I'm doing some other things. you know, I was having fun, our kitchen setup to host people. And ⁓ she made a comment, she goes, Wow, this is really bougie. And I'm like, Not really. I'm just like I'm just having some fun cooking. Like I this I'm not I'm not trying to, you know, get an award from a tire company here. Like I'm just trying to have some fun in the kitchen. But you know, same with wine, like if, you know

Mike Kostyo (33:13)
Ha ha ha.

Uh-huh.

Frank Beard (33:25)
I'm a wine nerd and a coffee nerd. If I talk about what I like, people be like, you're being up at eating. I'm like, no, this stuff's just really good. It doesn't have to be expensive. So I but I I think we get this idea that making food better means you have to move up market. And there is a legitimate fear that if you move up market, you're gonna exclude the core customer. And I actually think there's a lot of truth to that. ⁓ I think it's pretty accurate, and that's happened to some folks. But at the same time, I think we need to look at, well, what kind of food do people actually want?

Maeve Webster (33:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kostyo (33:41)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (33:53)
Right now, the convenience store industry has been obsessed for the past few years with this idea of out-competing the quick service restaurants because there's some data that shows that a lot of the people are going straight to a QSR after going to the C store. And they and you know, rightfully they say, Hey, I mean, we should be just that that that's our business. We should be winning that business. But my worry is that a lot of the solutions I'm hearing kind of sound like recreating the QSR.

Mike Kostyo (34:07)
Mm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm, mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (34:20)
only without the marketing

budgets to blunt force them into relevance. Because the fact is like, look, if we look around our communities, I live in what's probably considered like one of the nice communities in our metro area. ⁓ I should have some better food options around here, but it is a sea of mediocre fast food. All these chains everywhere. And I I'm like, look, these aren't aspirational from a food perspective. ⁓ they just aren't. Like they're not really I I think Chick fil A does an all right job. Like I'll give them a pass. But even then

Mike Kostyo (34:36)
Hmm.

Mm, mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (34:49)
It's basic. I'm like, okay, if if you try to recreate the QSR and you don't have the marketing budgets to make them relevant, you're gonna backdoor yourself into gas station food 2.0 real quick because it's gonna be perceived as a lesser than version. So I think the convenience stores have to sell something that's fundamentally better and is better executed. And in my opinion, the one gap that's in our communities is we don't have street food.

Mike Kostyo (34:59)
Mm.

Mm mm.

Frank Beard (35:13)
You know, you

look in most parts of the world, there's not most, but a lot of parts of the world, there's street food. In America, we don't have it because we designed our communities around cars. So it's natural that we thought, hey, we should shove street food into a truck and call it a food truck. but turns out cities don't support those very much. Realistically, the convenience stores where people are at, you know, they have in some cases the traffic patterns to support really unique food programs. You look at the hot case in the store. Well, I've had street food out of a hot case.

Maeve Webster (35:14)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kostyo (35:17)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (35:43)
You look at the small kitchens where some do made to order, that kind of looks like street food to me. And when you see companies like TXB down in Austin, you see companies like sh not New York Shop Right, but Louisiana, ⁓ Shop Right and the Bourbon Street Deli in Louisiana. Their bourbon street delis is Cajun street food, basically. ⁓ to me, that's where this can go. And guess what? That's food that Bubba's gonna like. That's also food that I'm gonna like. I think that's a food a lot of people are going to like. Like

Mike Kostyo (36:01)
Hmm.

Maeve Webster (36:02)
Bye.

Mike Kostyo (36:08)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (36:12)
You know, appealing to Baba doesn't have to mean excluding everyone, but we do have to have an honest conversation about what kind of food do our communities need and why? And I and I think sometimes that's missing.

Mike Kostyo (36:20)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Well, and even on that topic, I mean, so where does health play within all this? Because then I think that's the other side of the equation. We often hear Bubba doesn't care about health. Bubba doesn't eat healthy, doesn't want health food. And so do you agree with that? Do you think that's the going to be the case for the long term here?

Maeve Webster (36:22)
Yeah, that's a point. ⁓

Mike Kostyo (36:40)
⁓ is there a place for healthier options to play and when I say health, it's all encompassing. It can be functional foods, it can be low cal or low fat foods, it's kind of everything under that, you know, healthy umbrella.

Frank Beard (36:46)
Okay.

Yeah, you know, I'd be curious what you guys think about this, but my my take has kind of been I think when folks try to make healthy food, they they just make stuff that like people who eat a lot of healthy food like, ⁓ that's not really I remember some, you know, about ten years ago the convenience store industry is making a big push down that route and you saw a lot of folks that would just say, Hey, here's a tray of raw broccoli. I I'm like, Look, I I love broccoli. Don't get me wrong. But man, I don't want to eat raw broccoli. You've

Mike Kostyo (37:04)
Mm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Maeve Webster (37:16)
Bye bye.

Frank Beard (37:21)
got to roast or blanch that stuff. it's just yeah, like it's not appetizing by itself. I mean,

Maeve Webster (37:24)
Thank

Frank Beard (37:28)
it's not like grabbing berries off the vine, you know, it's it's not that case. So I I I think there's ways to do it better. ⁓ you know, let's go back to street tacos. Like there's no reason why your lunch at a convenience store has to be eleven hundred calories. Why can't you just have a couple little corn tortillas that are about 50-60 calories a piece, a little bit of chicken or something, and maybe the option to

Mike Kostyo (37:30)
Ha ha.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (37:51)
Scoop some avocado out and

Maeve Webster (37:52)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (37:53)
you know, get a sauce from some local sauce company or something, or do your own proprietary one and make it a signature sauce, sell it in the store. I mean, there's things that can be done. ⁓ I could see a road crew coming in and buying that for lunch. I could see me coming in and buying that for lunch. maybe I don't want to cook. Maybe I didn't go to the grocery store. Maybe that store's three minutes down the street, and I'm like, I'm just gonna go get that today. ⁓ so

Mike Kostyo (38:02)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (38:16)
I think sometimes the healthy conversation just gets a bit weird and in the weeds. Like right now, you know, we're talking about putting fiber in all these beverages and I'm like, guys, just eat real food. We're crying out loud, like most real food has the nutrition you need if you just eat real food. So

Mike Kostyo (38:23)
Well, Aaron too, so because

Maeve Webster (38:26)
Thank

Mike Kostyo (38:35)
this kind of ties back into something that you said on our initial call and that we completely believe in at Menu Matters, which is this idea of just creating menus and brands that we're proud of, that we're proud of putting that food out there. ⁓

Maeve Webster (38:35)
to

Mike Kostyo (38:48)
Yes, it should be consumer-centric and we should, consider what they want. But also at the end of the day, are we proud of the types of things that we're putting on the menu? Are we proud if somebody comes into our location and eats there seven days a week that they made that decision? And so I think you're one of the only people well, I wouldn't say, you know, we've talked to quite a few chefs, but you're one of the few people that we've talked to that

That idea of let's create concepts that we believe in should be a central part of the conversation.

Frank Beard (39:17)
No, that's really interesting.

But so on that topic

of pride though, that's interesting because like I'm sure you'd agree, you know, as consumers, like when you go into a store, when you go into a restaurant, you can feel the difference when someone's proud. You really can. Like so I've got a buddy down in Round Rock who's a level two Som, you know, ran a place called

Mike Kostyo (39:28)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Mm, mm.

Frank Beard (39:35)
Yeah,

Round Rock wine wine mart or something. You can find him on Facebook, but he's just switching over, changing the business a little bit. And I remember going over there and I brought a big study tour from Australia.

we go in with this group and he was just asking folks, you know, like what do they like? And I love the way he approached it because he would ask folks, What do you like to drink? Why do you like that? And then instead of trying to force his taste or what he considers good enough onto someone, he would give them something that they would like. And there he was so proud to do this. He was so proud of he's so proud of his business. He's so proud of s the way, you know, he serves and

Mike Kostyo (39:54)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (40:11)
I'm like, that's cool. And you can feel the difference in places like that versus someone where you go into a restaurant that claims to be a wine bar and it looks like a distributor put a list together with like mass market brand names.

Mike Kostyo (40:11)
Yes.

Maeve Webster (40:18)
I was like

Mike Kostyo (40:19)
⁓ huh.

Frank Beard (40:21)
But you know, with convenience stores though, I think the pride thing does matter. Like I'll use TXB, for example. You know, I've brought a lot of study tours to their stores and they're always very proud to host them, show people around and explain here's what we're doing, here's the brand we're trying to build, here's what we're, you know, not to say they have everything figured out, but

Mike Kostyo (40:32)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (40:39)
They're they're always figuring things out. And that's a thing. The companies that are proud of what they do are going to figure stuff out. Doesn't mean they're perfect, but they're gonna get the answer sooner than others. And they're candidly the ones that are gonna set the standard other people have to follow. Because once you've been around you know, an option where they're proud of what they do, I mean it puts every cast everyone else in a different light candidly. ⁓ and so I I'm with you. I think, you know, a lot of people don't sit down and think.

Mike Kostyo (40:45)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes.

Yes, yes, yeah.

Maeve Webster (41:03)
Yeah.

Frank Beard (41:09)
Hey, how do we make a food menu that we're proud of? I think sometimes they think, well, what what are the trends decks showing? And that's tricky it's tricky to me too. I I don't know. I I mean pride, pride doesn't have to be a sign of like an upmarket thing. It doesn't have to be expensive, but I mean, yeah, it's like a street food vendor. I I mean, you see someone cooking food that they're proud of at the end of the day, or you know, I had some Nepalese dumplings out of a gas station in ⁓ Texas one time, you know, I think COVID

Mike Kostyo (41:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (41:34)
killed that one off sadly. But you know, they were bringing in recipes that they grew up with as kids, and that stuff was good. I brought a small study tour there and they were just cooking them left and right, throwing plates at us. I'm like, eat this, eat this, try this. And I'm like, when you see that, you know you're in a good place, right? But you big big companies can be proud too. I mean, it's it's different. It's different when you have a thousand stores. but you can be, you can be proud, I mean, I live by the case,

Mike Kostyo (41:35)
Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (41:36)
Mm.

Mike Kostyo (41:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah, yeah.

Frank Beard (42:01)
The number one Casey's for whole pizza sales. It's about two, three minutes from my house. those guys move some pizza at at this store. And look, they're real proud of what they do at that store. I've brought a lot of groups to to see this place. It's not a new format store. It's kind of an older one. And they just move pizza left and right. But they they have people who are invested in what they're doing who are skilled professionals and are proud of what they do at the end of the day. And it shows like that store fires on all cylinders twenty four seven.

Mike Kostyo (42:05)
And that's saying something, yeah.

Maeve Webster (42:07)
Yeah, right. Yeah, they do.

Mike Kostyo (42:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I think it trickles down to exactly what you're saying. So we're actually working on a sea store project right now. So as part of it, I went to a couple sea stores when I was visiting my sister out in Connecticut. And there there were two, they were directly across a street from each other. The first one I went to was the people could not have cared less that you were in the store. They didn't talk to you. The guy at the counter was on his phone, didn't even notice when we walked up.

Frank Beard (42:48)
Yeah.

Mike Kostyo (42:53)
The fried chicken was in a Ziploc bag. You got two pieces in just like a Ziploc bag. And it was a really terrible experience. And directly across the street was a new Cumberland Farms. And it was absolutely gorgeous. And the very first thing that happened when we walked in is the woman came and found us in the aisle and said, Thanks for coming in. I mean, that shaded the entire experience. She was clearly proud of working there.

Frank Beard (42:59)
no.

Mike Kostyo (43:17)
There was actually a big line formed. somebody came up, jumped on the register to make sure that people were being taken care of. You could tell that they cared and were proud of the store that they had created and should be. It was a a fantastic experience. So I think, a brand has pride in the product they've they've created, that trickles down to the people working in the stores and eventually to the customer.

Frank Beard (43:27)
Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (43:38)
Well, to piggyback, sorry, yeah, you totally agree. Because the minute you started on this conversation of pride, I was thinking of how it impacts employees and their satisfaction of working there, and then in turn how good they are at their jobs. But this issue of labor, right, is also often a pushback on the idea of food service and convenience stores, right? And the labor issue in food service. But we've talked to some people who are beginning to push back on that idea that labor really isn't as much of a problem.

Frank Beard (43:38)
It it does, yeah.

Mike Kostyo (44:05)
Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (44:07)
that the industry likes to now say that labor is an issue because it's an easy scapegoat, right? And an easy excuse for why things might not be as good as they are. What do you think about the issue of labor and convenience stores and whether or not in this country, labor is going to be a hurdle that will hold convenience stores back or is that kind of a red herring?

Frank Beard (44:30)
Yeah, it's tricky. I I mean, gosh, I'm trying to think of where I would go with that. You know, one of the first things that came to mind when you brought this up was I remember touring some convenience stores in Berlin, and there we went to this this one site that was part of this particular company that was branded with ⁓ the old fuel brand, right? And then but then we had gone to a newer one that was branded in conjunction with a grocer. And was we're talking to the store manager, and he told us just the change in branding, everything else the same.

Mike Kostyo (44:48)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (44:59)
They're getting an entirely different applicant applying to work at the store. ⁓ you know, they're they're getting folks that had worked at bakeries and coffee shops versus the type of applicant they were getting at the at the other sites. And I don't know, that always kind of stuck with me because, you know, not look, I've worked retail, I've worked some jobs that don't pay very much. I I've got some pretty strong views that maybe some folks wouldn't necessarily agree with when it comes to things. At the end of the day, you know, what you get paid is the biggest differentiator. And it,

Mike Kostyo (45:02)
Hmm. Hmm.

Maeve Webster (45:09)
Mm.

Mike Kostyo (45:11)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Frank Beard (45:28)
It's just it just is. I mean, stuff costs so much in America right now. And it's ha you know, we've seen what inflation and increases in housing prices and everything has done in in the last five to six years. And it's hard because people remember and have a mental framework for what things cost, you know, five or six years ago. And so when you see these prices now, you're like, it's jarring. And you kind of feel like every industry is out there trying to

figure out how they can charge the maximum amount for the thing they sell, but in the aggregate, it just feels like you're getting steamrolled on prices. So look, people have to be able to afford to live at the end of the day. Like that and, you know, full stop. But beyond that, there are things you can do to make someone happier in their job that have nothing to do with pay. I was talking about this with someone else. ⁓

Mike Kostyo (46:05)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (46:17)
You know, working at a gas station is actually a hard job. ⁓ you have to wear a lot of hats, you have to know how to do a lot of systems, you have to understand fuel, CPG, you have to understand, you know, restaurant or QSR, depending on what's going on. ⁓ if you're at a truck stop, start layering in like several more things. That's a really hard job. And I I think people who know how to do that, that is a real skill and it should be appreciated as a as a as a real skill. And ⁓

Mike Kostyo (46:20)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Maeve Webster (46:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kostyo (46:32)
Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (46:33)
Right.

Frank Beard (46:44)
I guess I would think like, I don't know if if you're familiar with how Enterprise Rent A Car does their man their manager trainee programs. I always thought what they figured out was kind of clever. They took a job that was never seen as particularly ⁓ desirable, you know, a rental car agent at a branch or an airport, and they turned it into something that gets a lot of ⁓ high performing college graduates to go work for a salary that, unless they've changed it, is based off of 50 hours a week instead of 40, which is kind of crazy.

Maeve Webster (46:49)
Mm.

Mike Kostyo (47:09)
Hm.

Frank Beard (47:10)
But they

Maeve Webster (47:10)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (47:11)
put

them through all this training. They teach them how to sell. They give them especially if they want more opportunities to learn how to sell. You can shadow people. You can they they treat it like we know a lot of you won't stay and won't go up through the program, but we recruit from this. And everyone else who moves on, you have a resume booster now and you have something you can leverage for a step up in your career. And I've always thought that's clever because like.

I'm not saying get into title inflation, but there but there have to be other things that you can do to treat a convenience store job as look, some of you are going to move on and that's okay, but how can we make our company more desirable by giving you something that's not, easily found everywhere else that you you can leverage so so you're proud to work here because you know you're getting something at the end of the day. And I don't know what the answer is. It's just something I've been thinking about because there are examples of companies who figured that out in their own way. ⁓

Mike Kostyo (47:48)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Maeve Webster (48:00)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike Kostyo (48:02)
I mean, I've seen, yeah, and I'm I'm sure you've seen even more some of the training manuals for somebody that works in a convenience store. I'm like, how do you keep all this y in your mind? just the amount of stuff. I I always think in any food service location, a good manager is worth their weight in gold, but in a convenience store in particular, like exactly what the number of hats you have to wear, the things that you have to deal with, like it is a really, really

Frank Beard (48:20)
Yeah.

Mike Kostyo (48:26)
Cognitively difficult job

Frank Beard (48:27)
this won't be the most popular opinion, but some companies are just gonna have to pay more. ⁓ and I'm and I'm not I'm not saying it's the fault of the convenience store. It's just the re the reality of the world they're doing business in. if you want to get top top people because you know, there's other companies who are gonna compete with that. I I mean there's some other restaurant restaurant and food ⁓ restaurant and retail companies that'll pay more and you just gotta do what you gotta do. I mean, at the end of the day, having

Mike Kostyo (48:31)
Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (48:51)
Anyone who's weighted tables knows, I mean, you can make pretty good money at a at a restaurant too. but I do think folks do sometimes make a bigger issue out of labor than they need to. And but it's interesting too, because in the, you know, you've seen in the US, ⁓ the way a lot of folks are moving with food, especially out east and, you know, some other pockets of the country, is to go fully made to order and run these very labor intensive kitchen operations. But then it's

To what we started talking about. You go to Japan and that's not that's not what they're doing. That's not at all what they're doing. And maybe it's a reason number five hundred ninety-seven to look at Japan for some inspiration because they have some labor constraints there, like real labor constraints. and yeah, they they have to figure out how to how do we run a store on minimal staff. But the food is exceptional and it's I mean, other than maybe some fried chicken being fried there. ⁓ most of the food it's those

Mike Kostyo (49:18)
I was just gonna say this. Yeah. Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Sure, right? Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (49:45)
Sam I mean, those things are getting delivered in. You know, they're being brought in on a truck, so and they're and they're exceptional.

Mike Kostyo (49:47)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (49:49)
I guess one of the,

I would say probably one of the realities of the differences between Japan and here. And I agree with you when people are like, we can't bring that over because we're so completely different. where we are really different is geographically, just size wise, you know? And so your point about the commissaries and bringing food in and getting it delivered really frequently, I think that can present real challenges in this country, though it would be a great

⁓ you know, job builder, more of those commissaries going, ⁓ you know, more across the country. But ⁓ that would be, if we could make that work in this country, that could solve a lot of problems for this segment.

Mike Kostyo (50:17)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (50:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, and there's some companies that have done some interesting things. I mean, I've had the chance to tour the food production facilities up with Quick Trip in lacrosse, Wisconsin and Candley's that production facility is one of the coolest things I've ever seen in my life. I was I was blown away. I mean, if anyone's listening, like you guys know what you're doing over there. It's it's very obvious. But it's you know, so there's that. But you know

Mike Kostyo (50:36)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (50:50)
Sometimes I think too, some companies do spread themselves so thin geographically and they and they don't have the density to make it easy to do, you know, something like seven eleven or law center family mart ⁓ is doing over in Japan. But if you look at a company like like Weigels, for example, out of Knoxville, Tennessee, they're very geographically dense and clustered in a specific region. And sometimes you have to wonder maybe maybe that's a better play. ⁓ and they're an old company that's really plugged into their communities and

Mike Kostyo (50:57)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (51:09)
you

Frank Beard (51:17)
You know, people's grandparents shopped there or bought milk from there. And so it's that stuff kind of compounds over time and, you know, helps you build a brand that actually does stand out from when some other company moves into town or, you know, a big national chain sets up shop and acquires a few stores. So it's maybe there's something to that. I don't know. But the thing that gets me though is I think sometimes when we talk about commissary food, we talk about it like it's a lesser than thing or it's not as good. And, you know, to be fair, yeah, there's a component of that. I get it.

Mike Kostyo (51:41)
Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (51:42)
Mm, mhm.

Frank Beard (51:47)
But again, to go to the the the Japanese store is like their food's pretty good. It's coming out of a commissary. I mean, yeah. And it it's like, I think if everyone just makes it just a little bit better. Like I remember we got out of something one morning, and I wanted to go to this particular coffee shop. we were over there for like three weeks last year, and I'm a huge specialty coffee nerd. So I went to twenty two of the best specialty coffee shops in Japan and my

Mike Kostyo (51:51)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (51:54)
Yeah. it doesn't need to be that way. Yeah.

Mike Kostyo (51:56)
Mm-hmm.

Just a couple.

Frank Beard (52:15)
Poor wife was such a good sport coming along to those because she doesn't like coffee. She's like, Well, you're you're gonna be going to ⁓ you know, like beauty stores. And I'm like, please, like, please take me there. ⁓ you should drag me to something after what I just took you to.

Maeve Webster (52:20)
no.

You

Frank Beard (52:28)
But I wanted to go to about us coffee. And you know, sometimes the coffee shops don't open till nine or ten, which is interesting. And so I'm like, Well, I got about 45 minutes to burn. I'm like, is there a bakery around here?

Mike Kostyo (52:35)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (52:41)
there was, but it was too far of a walk. And some I'm like, gosh, what do I do to burn some time? Well, there was a, there was a family mart right by us. I'm like, I don't know, let's just get something there. Well, I love rolled eggs, I love cooking rolled eggs, so I wanted something with a rolled egg on it, but I didn't want just a rolled egg. And so I'm looking around and I saw a sandwich and it just said Japanese noodle and egg sandwich. That's like, all right, this looks interesting.

Mike Kostyo (53:02)
Mm.

Frank Beard (53:04)
⁓ looked like some kind of noodles that you know almost looked like pan seared, had some sort of a soy glaze or something on it. I don't know. But I bought it, ripped it open, took a bite of it, had a rolled egg on the bottom, and I was like, whoa, this is kind of good. And and I'm like, this is this is absolutely delightful. I don't know what quite is in this, but then what I noticed is on the top piece of bread, there was some sort of like a white cream that was spread just lightly.

inside on the top. I'm not quite sure what it is because I just ate the whole thing. I didn't, you know, dip my finger in it. But I'm thinking someone made this and was proud of what they did. Like someone tried to make this sandwich good. They didn't just be like, here's a basic turkey sandwich with a boring piece of a the cheapest American cheese we can find and source. ⁓ it didn't feel like a Cisco special. It didn't feel like anything. It just felt like, hey, I mean someone tried to make a good sandwich. And that's a thing. It's not trying to be artisanal. It's not trying to be

Mike Kostyo (53:35)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (53:53)
No.

Frank Beard (54:00)
you know, something like a big bakery would sell, but it's still good. And that's the thing. Commissary food doesn't have to be bad. It can be really good actually.

Mike Kostyo (54:04)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (54:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kostyo (54:08)
I think, yeah, I mean, to me, because I almost said, you know, in Japan, just their convenience store culture is the trust factor that's built in. Like, like when we were there, we ended every single night at a convenience store. And it all came from ⁓ from a commissary, but you just know that they take their convenience store so seriously. You knew that the quality was going to be there. That that's why they're so proud.

Frank Beard (54:22)
Yeah.

Mike Kostyo (54:32)
But then when I think about, I mean, Japan and their pride in everything they do is the trust factor in almost everything that you eat there. And so I for a brand here, you a brand can be the trust factor.

Frank Beard (54:44)
I know sometimes people knock Americans on our relationship to brands. ⁓ but I'll be honest, like one of the challenges, and to be fair, this was ⁓ I know you guys asked like five questions at the end. I won't totally spoil the answer to one of them, but there but there but there but there is actually, I think, a problem in America that we've normalized deception in business, ⁓ and especially, we've

Mike Kostyo (54:57)
This will be a great transition, yeah.

Maeve Webster (54:59)
Hahaha!

Frank Beard (55:07)
We've normalized deception to such a point that everyone feels it and you always feel like someone's trying to trick you or pull a fast one on you. And you, you know, a good brand that can that you can actually trust, that's a valuable thing because it's hard to know what to trust. And you see so many brands that get bought out by private equity or, you know, what have you, or they just, you know, things change, incentives change, and they just destroy you know, like Southwest Airlines used to mean something. I

Mike Kostyo (55:13)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (55:36)
had a time one time where I thought I was I was trying to hit my companion pass or whatever or whatever and I thought I calculated correctly. I would have actually paid more for another flight if I realized that the, you know, voodoo economics and the fine print didn't quite actually get the points I needed. But I was trying and I sent them a message. I said, hey, I think you need to just give me that companion pass. I said, I would have literally spent more on this last flight. I wasn't even paying for that flight. I was trying to be responsible and not overcharge somebody.

But I said, look at my purchase history and you'll understand, like, like I'm gonna spend a lot of money with you guys, but if you don't work with me on this, like I'm literally from the Midwest, I'll just switch airlines. And and you know, to their credit, they actually had like an assistant to the CEO call me. And she's like, you know, she's like, we don't typically do this, but she's like, Yeah, I looked over that and she's like, You're right, you you actually did have a point. She's like, We'll work with you. And she's like, if you just buy like a flight in the next three months, just don't worry about it. I was like, Hey, wow.

Mike Kostyo (56:14)
No yeah.

Wow. Wow.

Maeve Webster (56:21)
Wow.

Mike Kostyo (56:27)
Wow.

Frank Beard (56:33)
I literally did not even expect this. Thank you. You know. And I was so blown away by that because they they didn't have to do that.

Maeve Webster (56:36)
Yeah.

Frank Beard (56:39)
a good brand really is a good thing as much as we like to make fun of it sometimes, because, you know, it's it's rough out there. And, you know, there's a lot of people that you can't trust.

Mike Kostyo (56:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mm, mm. Absolutely.

Absolutely. ⁓

Maeve Webster (56:48)
Well, I mean, exactly what you were talking about. That's why brand loyalty is actually at its lowest point that it's ever been in history. Skepticism is now the default for most people, particularly younger people who find it difficult to, know, to your point, not feel like every time they turn around, somebody's trying to take advantage of them, whether it's a business, whether it's social media, whether it's AI now, you know, all over the place. And so building trust is not only more critical,

Frank Beard (56:55)
Yeah.

Maeve Webster (57:16)
but it's more difficult.

Frank Beard (57:17)
Well, you yeah, you bring up a really good point though. I was talking about this with someone recently. ⁓ not to put a tin foil hat on, and I definitely won't get into politics by any means because you alienate half the audience the moment you do that, but it's just like it does feel it feels like there are some people that genuinely want us to be in a low trust society. And there's so much stuff out there that is contributing to removing trust, making us hate each other, making us be skeptical of each other.

Maeve Webster (57:36)
Mm.

Frank Beard (57:44)
Candidly, I think social media is one of the worst things that's happened. we should want to be in a high trust society. We should want to trust the people around us. And I think, you know, I I mean that's kind of a responsibility on on everyone. And it's not a responsibility on businesses too. Like, how do you be a part of the community? How do you present yourself? how do you interact with people? Can they trust you? ⁓ do you

Do you support things that matter to people in those communities? I mean, we've just, I mean, I'm 40 now, and I was reading Bowling Alone back my freshman year of college, and I had to call my grandma and I was like, wait, I feel like he's describing a foreign world that makes no sense to me. Did you guys really have all this stuff you did in your communities back then? And she's like, Yeah, your grandpa was involved with this, involved with this. We went to the dance halls on Fridays, and I was like, What?

It was like, what are you talking about? I mean, I felt like that was all stripped away by the time I was a freshman in college. But to go from that 2004 when I first read that book to 2026, you know, here over two decades later, ⁓ whoa, it's gotten it's gotten even worse. So I I I think, you know, it's good for us to recognize that. But I think all of us in our own way just have to contr find out how how can we contribute and, you know, present ourselves as trustworthy to the people around us and it's

I don't know. It's a really complicated topic, but I do think, you know, when brands present themselves well, they're they're filling the void that a lot of people feel. ⁓ they really are, at the end of the day. So

Maeve Webster (59:08)
Yeah, agreed.

Mike Kostyo (59:11)
Agreed,

agreed, yes. now I'm losing my voice. I might yeah, I apologize. I don't know where this came from. but that's a great lead in to our five questions. And so we asked these at the end of every episode, and so the first one is what is your hospitality or food pet peeve?

Maeve Webster (59:13)
okay there?

Frank Beard (59:14)
Yeah.

That was

So I've definitely got a few of those, and I love this question, by the way. I think it's really the way we've normalized deception. ⁓ and to get back to that, I think it the the shows up in in two ways. Deliberate deception and also just marketing deception, ⁓ which, you know, as a marketer, it's I'll rag on that a little bit. But in some cases, it's deliberate. ⁓ you know, you've probably seen the whole story about what's the deal with a lot of Gulf Coast shrimp that's actually imported from China or

You know, it's it says it's this food and it's not. We've seen the stories, you know, around you know, the obvious things like truffle oil, things like that. ⁓ you know, it's it's it's kind of shocking how much effort is made to just make it okay for businesses to straight up deceive you on packaging. ⁓ and I'm not not not to say every company producing something in packaging is doing that, because that's obviously not the case. But if they wanted to, ⁓ there's there's a lot of things that they can do.

That are straight up deceptive. And so that's frustrating. But on the other hand, marketing is a big part of it. Like I remember talking about this with the owner of a coffee shop that had unfortunately closed in Nashville called Now and Then. She's a competition barista, her and her husband, and it's one of the probably that was probably the coolest coffee shop in the United States until it closed. ⁓ you know, you'd go and there's like 10 seats and you spend like 45 bucks on a pour over, you know, like you're in Japan or something. ⁓ you know, getting

A high-end competition lot by someone who is absolutely putting craft into that. And we were talking about this. And it's just it's amazing when you see it, like in the coffee industry in particular. It's the amount of language that is used to make you feel like you're getting a premium product from a place that's selling you a commodity. but they'll look at you in the straight with a straight face and say that. And then they'll start using language that has nothing to do with quality, talking, you know, that someone who doesn't know coffee isn't going to know that and they're going to think.

Wow, this is cool. And I'm like, no, that doesn't mean anything. I I had to have that conversation with a friend recently. He was like, well, this coffee is X. And I was like, so what? Doesn't mean that doesn't mean anything, man. I was like, where was it grown? How was it roasted? Who who was a farmer? What type of varietal is this? What, you know, processing technique? I was like, dude, it's like beer and wine. ⁓ you know, there's similar parallels. and you see it in restaurants too. It's like places that will present a basic Cisco item as

Maeve Webster (1:01:34)
What the?

Frank Beard (1:01:52)
Something that you should spend $17 on. And you know, the crab cake on the menu isn't there because the restaurant loves crab cakes and thought that we have a really cool way to prepare this and we'd love to have this on our menu for you. It's because, well, we'll just get this from here, put that on the menu. We'll get some frozen cheese sticks, fry those up. $17. You know, we have a denim apron and, you know, it's some medicine bulbs around there. So let's add a few bucks. It's just, it's so frustrating. I think one of the best examples of this is ⁓

Maeve Webster (1:01:52)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (1:02:21)
I always pronounce it wrong. to LeJure, that ⁓ bakery that's like a big franchise thing. So one of those opened up not too far from me. And well, I I have a thing that I call my croissant problem. I don't know why I can't get a good croissant in the nice part of town, but I can't. They're hard to find. And I have to drive, you know, 15 minutes to an actual bakery that makes a fantastic croissant. ⁓ but this place opened, I thought, hey, I'll go give it a shot. So I did.

And I walk in and I'm like, okay, so you have a shelf sitting there with a mocha pot, like a knockoff, ⁓ kind of like Bodum. ⁓ and then you've got like a couple old hand grinders. Are you are you using that equipment? No, you have a couple of big batch brewers behind the counter. So I'm like, so why is this sitting on a shelf? it's there is it's there for the aesthetics, you know, because we gotta make it Instagrammable. And then you go, you know, get the pastries. And I mean, it's not that they were bad or anything, candidly, I think a donut from Casey's.

Punched way above what I got there. ⁓ and that's not a knock on Casey's. I just think Casey's has good donuts but like I from what I can tell, this is probably an operation that's shipping in what I would presume are probably some frozen pucks that teenagers put in an oven and call it a day. Like, but and but again, it's presenting itself though as a premium bakery. If it wasn't.

I wouldn't care, but it's presenting and pricing itself as a premium bakery. And then you see people who don't know any different that drive their escalate in during lunch and go out after Pilates or whatever they're doing and go load up on these things and then post a photo. And it's like, my God, I can't believe how good this was. And I want to tell them, I'm like, okay, drive down to Kansas City and go to Ibis Bakery, please, for the love of God. They will change your life. They know how to make a croissant. Read their website, they brag about how good their croissants are.

And I can tell you from a lot of experience there but so that's what I'm saying. I I I just think like to be, you know, to find good things and to just be a consumer in America, you have to have a really well-functioning BS detector. And I kind of hate that. It's just the way it is, but I wish we would, you know, stop doing this. I I really wish we would and just stand behind what you sell and be proud of it, regardless of what it is.

Maeve Webster (1:04:10)
Hmm.

Mike Kostyo (1:04:32)
⁓ what is something that you've changed your mind about, whether it's in the food industry or not?

Frank Beard (1:04:33)
Yeah.

Maeve Webster (1:04:33)
Yep.

Frank Beard (1:04:38)
I'll be honest, I did think about

I think it's a good question. ⁓ it's tricky as like the further we get in our careers, I think a lot of people, you know, feel this need to be an expert on everything. And it's scary when you talk about something that you're not.

Mike Kostyo (1:04:48)
Mm.

Maeve Webster (1:04:51)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (1:04:52)
You know, I think that's just normal. ⁓ it's a normal thing to feel, but being right on everything is is exhausting and would be miserable. It's good to be curious and be wrong on things. It doesn't matter if you're wrong. Just get the right answer, however you you get it. For me, something I was definitely wrong on is I think about especially a little bit before COVID, there was this this idea out there that kind of e-commerce was just gonna eat the world and change everything forever. I was never one of those that's like, e commerce is gonna kill the malls. I mean, some malls, sure.

Mike Kostyo (1:05:14)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah,

yeah.

Frank Beard (1:05:22)
But

a lot of malls know. ⁓ but there was this idea that like brands are going direct to consumer. You saw a lot, you know, you s saw the emergence of like ultra fast delivery, you saw these different things, and you're thinking, well, why would I need to leave my house and go to a grocery store if you can have a 30 minute delivery? But at the end of the day, I think we forget that like sometimes you just gotta get out of the house. And you see this in a lot of other parts of the world where people are just walking everywhere, going places where maybe their house is actually smaller.

Because they're doing things outside of their home. or in the US, New York City would be a good example. But ⁓ you know, here, especially in places like where I'm from, a lot of folks build these big houses and then retreat inward and do everything inside and don't leave. But it's like it feels good to get out of the house. You have to get sun, you have to be around people. Sometimes going to the grocery store, I don't know what I want. I just want to go see what's there in the first place. I like to cook, I like to cook steak. ⁓

Mike Kostyo (1:05:57)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Maeve Webster (1:06:17)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (1:06:20)
The guy that runs the meat counter at the fairway ⁓ over here in West Des Moines. I always love going in because he's like, hey, what's up? And then he's All right, this got in right now. They had some American Waegu from a place in New York recently. And I was like, Okay, I'll take that flat that flat iron waigu. And I would have never known that if I wouldn't have just shown up and I had a good time. So it's like, you know, e-commerce has a place, obviously, especially in, you know, some parts of retail, but like even in the convenience store industry, you know, it's like I I work with a company right now that ⁓

Mike Kostyo (1:06:25)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Frank Beard (1:06:49)
you know, does it basically e-commerce platform for delivery and they they enable first and third party and all that. But the thing is like what you see in the data from stores that are doing well with it is yeah, it's a compliment onto what they're already doing. And it's like especially when you're tapping into something like DoorDash. You know, we used to think DoorDash was going to be this massive competitor, the convenience store industry. Not really. I mean there's some folks that for whatever reason just are not going to leave the house tonight. They're tired. They're maybe they're travel

Mike Kostyo (1:07:01)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (1:07:17)
They're traveling, whatever's going on, and they you know for whatever reason just aren't gonna leave and they're gonna make the decision about what's available on DoorDash. So yeah, you should have your stuff on there so you can be in the running for that demand, but it doesn't that doesn't take away from what you're already doing in your stores. It's it's a compliment. So I think no, e-commerce wasn't gonna destroy all these.

Mike Kostyo (1:07:32)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (1:07:36)
It wasn't going to eat the world. Just because you can get something more efficiently doesn't mean that's the right answer. I think sometimes w and I think maybe all of us are feeling this right now. I don't know about you, but I am. I want more friction in my life around some. So

Mike Kostyo (1:07:42)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. We say this all the time, yeah.

Maeve Webster (1:07:49)
Yeah.

Mike Kostyo (1:07:50)
I appreciate it. I appreciate it.

Maeve Webster (1:07:50)
Mike, I'll take the next one so that you can rest your voice. Yeah, no problem. ⁓ OK, so what is the one book, TV show, movie or product that you would recommend?

Frank Beard (1:07:53)
Ha ha ha.

Yeah, I've got that for sure. ⁓ I'll recommend a book. ⁓ big believer in that you just need to read for fun and like fiction books. Nothing to sadder to me when I see these end-of-year LinkedIn posts and it's all self-help, self-help books, and it's like 30 of them. And I'm like, my man, please read for fun. ⁓ so if you want to read for fun, ⁓ Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky. I hope I hope I'm pronouncing his last name correctly, but just buy that and read it. ⁓

Mike Kostyo (1:08:03)
Yeah.

⁓ business ebooks, yeah.

Maeve Webster (1:08:19)
No!

Frank Beard (1:08:31)
If you if science fiction is not your thing, ⁓ just go with a gentleman in Moscow by Amora Tolls. Please read that outside by a sunny window ⁓ with a copious amount of wine. And ⁓ and you'll understand when you when you get to the wine scene, ⁓ how that just was like a knife in my heart. the red or white or you know, or the no labels, you'll understand what I'm talking about. ⁓ that was hard to read. But anyway, that

Maeve Webster (1:08:32)
Alright.

Mike Kostyo (1:08:36)
tremendous. So come. Mm. Mm.

Maeve Webster (1:08:37)
Great book.

I'm sorry.

No.

Mike Kostyo (1:08:59)
huh.

Frank Beard (1:08:59)
That book is one of the best things I think I've ever read. It just it just like fills your soul and I don't know how else to describe it. But ⁓ I actually got that as a rec recommendation from someone else. and what I found helps me personally, saying if not everyone likes Amazon, you know, not gonna hurt my feelings here, but what's worked for me is always pull up the book someone recommends, find it on Amazon, and then download the Kindle sample. If anything, whether you end up buying it from Amazon or not, it's just a way to make sure that you don't forget it. because

Maeve Webster (1:09:27)
⁓

Mike Kostyo (1:09:27)
Mm

mm.

Maeve Webster (1:09:27)
good idea.

Frank Beard (1:09:28)
Internet history,

you can forget about that. But if it shows up as a sample, you always kind of have it to at least read a few pages of and make the decision.

Mike Kostyo (1:09:35)
True,

Maeve Webster (1:09:35)
Nice.

Mike Kostyo (1:09:35)
true. Yeah.

Maeve Webster (1:09:37)
Or you can do what I do and just buy the book and put it into the gigantic pile I've got that I still have not, yeah, tore through yet. Exactly. I do have my own library. we always ask and we will be asking you four questions. we always ask every one of our guests ⁓ what question they would like to ask for the next guest.

Mike Kostyo (1:09:39)
Mm. Yeah.

Frank Beard (1:09:41)
Ooh. Speaking of things I have not fully unpacked from moving late last year.

Maeve Webster (1:09:57)
this question is coming from Beth Kimmerle, who's the founder and CEO of Attribute Analytics. her question to you is what food trend do you think people are pretending to like?

Frank Beard (1:10:08)
Okay, I I kind of have two and I'll make these short. ⁓ I think well, I've got a lot more than two, but I'll I'll say it's two things loyal loyalty programs and fried chicken.

Maeve Webster (1:10:10)
Only two?

Mike Kostyo (1:10:11)
Ha ha ha

Maeve Webster (1:10:14)
Top two.

Mike Kostyo (1:10:18)
That wow, interesting. Huh. ⁓

Maeve Webster (1:10:19)
Wow, not what I was expecting. Okay.

Frank Beard (1:10:22)
So loyalty

programs. might ruffle some feathers here, but I don't you know, don't mean anything negative by it. Look, loyalty programs can be fine. I think Sephora's got a great loyalty program. I like the basic mechanics of hey, if you move your spin here and not, you know, awful Ulta or, you know, whatever competitor is there. You know, but if you move your spin to us, then the benefit is you can use these points to try before you buy on samples of expensive face creams and cosmetics and other things.

Mike Kostyo (1:10:30)
huh.

Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (1:10:52)
Great. ⁓ my wife loves that. That's a ri because that's a great deal. If you're gonna buy like an expensive South Korean face cream, well, you kinda like to try it first and see if it's worth buying. it is now? Cool, sweet. So that's actually a pretty functional program. ⁓ I know REI is a membership program, but still it's a fair deal for me. I get a percent back at the end of the year to buy more stuff at REI. Cool. I gotta be buying more shoes, so that's that's a great deal.

Maeve Webster (1:11:15)
Mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (1:11:20)
But I think loyalty programs are one of those things where there's just been an explosion of them. Everyone has them. And I don't think a lot of people sit down and think, do we even need this in the first place? And is this even valuable to our customers? Now, to be fair, I I get just putting one in place and whatever. But what drives me absolutely bonkers is the way that it's talked about, around industry events sometimes, like,

Maeve Webster (1:11:31)
Mm.

Frank Beard (1:11:42)
Loyalty programs are like walking into all of all of Vander's wand shop and being handed magic, and it's gonna make everyone loyal to your company. It's gonna change everything. You're gonna get the all the most insane customer data. It's gonna change everything. And I'm like, okay, like I think sometimes a lot of us just need to be brutally honest about the fact that per on a personal level, some of us just don't even really use these things and say, look, if you're gonna do it, make it really good. And there are some people who do a really good job. Like I'll be Weiggles that I mentioned in Knoxville, Tennessee. They crush it with their loyalty program.

Mike Kostyo (1:12:02)
Yeah.

Frank Beard (1:12:12)
Like ⁓ these guys just went to the Loyalty three sixty event, I think it was last month, and they beat out all these national brands. It's Weiggles with less than a hundred stores in Knoxville, Tennessee. And I think that's because they know what their customers are looking for and they know how to build something where there's something in it for them. That's fair. I think that's great actually. But I think there's a lot of folks that just check the box, they all do the same thing, and then they just pass through a bunch of deals from CPG companies and it what's that say about your own brand? I don't know. It's just

Mike Kostyo (1:12:40)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Frank Beard (1:12:42)
personally find them very boring. That's that's really all it comes down to. I'd r I'd I'd rather just see some boudin or a po'boy in a gas station. I don't care. That's that's what I'm looking for. You know, I can't I can't eat a loyalty program. I want to eat good food. And this and speaking of so speaking of food is fried chicken. Look, I like fried chicken. So it's probably a funny answer. But there's like a fried chicken wars in the gas station industry right now. And I'm telling you, everyone is getting in on fried chicken, which is fine.

Mike Kostyo (1:12:49)
That's a great quote. ⁓

Maeve Webster (1:12:54)
I'm

Mike Kostyo (1:13:05)
Ha ha ha

Frank Beard (1:13:11)
The problem is kind of twofold. One, some of it is so caloric that I I mean, like what do you want from me? Like I'm trying not to eat twelve hundred calories. there's gotta be some way to enjoy it without like being full the rest of the day. The other thing is everyone's kind of selling the same thing at the end of the day and it's all chicken breast. Now, look, at least strips. Look, I love to cook.

I like cooking with chicken. I gotta tell you, chicken breast is hard to cook with because you got a narrow window where it's gonna be really good or it's undercooked or it's dry and it's overcooked. ⁓ that stresses me out. Chicken thighs, on the other hand, are a blast to cook with. You can overcook chicken thighs to the F degree and somehow they're kind of still good unless you screw unless you really screw it up badly. And what I found interesting is when you go to Japanese convenience stores, they're selling chicken thighs.

Mike Kostyo (1:13:48)
Mm-hmm.

Ha ha ha.

Frank Beard (1:13:58)
Like you go and get fanny chicky, you get this other stuff. And it's kind of like if you imagine the McDonald's hash browns, those little rectangular, kind of curved corners, ⁓ drop them in the little pouch. That's what it's like when you get some of this from a hot case in a Japanese convenience store. But like I got one from a natural lawsuit and ⁓ my wife speaks Japanese, so I had to kinda translate the wrapper, and it's talking about how this chick they had information about the provenance of the chicken on it, saying that it had a soy koji marination.

Maeve Webster (1:13:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Kostyo (1:13:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm, mm.

Ha ha ha.

Frank Beard (1:14:26)
And I'm thinking, okay, I I was not familiar with the game you're playing, but I see it now. And I'm like, this stuff was so insanely good. But I'm sitting here thinking, a McDonald's hash brown size like little chicken thigh that's you know, it's been sitting in a hot box, but it's still juicy, it's still flavorful, it's got all the fat in it. I don't know why Americans have an aversion to fat, but I mean, let's get over that. I I I know. I know. It's I'm like, are we still in that weird nineties mindset that we have from

Maeve Webster (1:14:30)
Hahaha

They really don't though. They really don't.

Frank Beard (1:14:55)
fat with sugar and make things worse. I I don't know. But but but still it's like if someone sold a product like that, I don't know, what's that, three, four hundred calories, maybe? I don't know. I'm just taking a wild guess. It's not gonna be twelve hundred. Man, that'd be the great pr it'd be a great product for a little treat in between meals, or maybe I ate some fruit that morning, I'm getting hungry before dinner, I don't want a full meal, just pop in, grab one of those, snack on it, and you're good to go. But yeah, fried chicken, I I I

I think everyone is like they act like they're so excited about it, but I I I think a lot of people are like, We gotta make this more interesting and they're thinking that privately. So

Mike Kostyo (1:15:25)
Ha ha ha.

Maeve Webster (1:15:31)
Yeah,

Mike Kostyo (1:15:31)
Hopefully, yeah.

Maeve Webster (1:15:31)
yeah. All right. So to round it out, just like we did with our last guest, we're gonna ask you to ask a question of our next guest who we have not scheduled so we don't know who they are. So this is just a blind question to the next guest.

Mike Kostyo (1:15:48)
it ⁓ it's the president of Tulajure, is actually who we're going to yeah. ⁓

Frank Beard (1:15:51)
Do you do you do you really use the quote unquote finest ingredients like you claim? I mean ⁓ man. Again, not not bad. I yeah, I could go on about that. It's

Maeve Webster (1:15:51)
⁓ So ask a deep question you were most curious about.

I'm not even gonna laugh!

None of us are going to be working with Toulouse-Joure anytime in the near future, by the way.

Frank Beard (1:16:16)
so I liked the question about like what do you think people are pretending to like so but

Kind of in a similar vein, I was thinking it'd be fun to ask, like, ⁓ what trend would you like to become a thing? And because sometimes I feel like you go to conferences and you see these trends decks and you see all this stuff, and I'm like, okay, supposedly fiber and water is a thing. I'm like, I don't know anyone who actually like seeks that out. I don't think. I was like, where did this come from? And I'm like, okay, what trend would you actually like to see become a thing? Like what excites you? What gets you riled up when you think about it? Like, what do you enjoy eating?

Mike Kostyo (1:16:28)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Ha ha

Mm.

Frank Beard (1:16:51)
⁓ what do you want to see more of out there? I just think it'd be kind of interesting.

Mike Kostyo (1:16:53)
Mm

good question, yeah, yeah. ⁓ well I can that mm

Maeve Webster (1:16:56)
Okay, it is a good question.

Frank Beard (1:17:00)
For me personally, it's Budin. I live in Iowa. I don't live in

Louisiana. I if I lived in Louisiana probably thirty pounds heavier. The food's so good I wouldn't be able stop eating it. But ⁓ yeah, I don't know. There's some some parts of the country that have a real food culture, a lot of them that don't, but Louisiana, that place has a real food culture. So

Mike Kostyo (1:17:06)
⁓ huh. ⁓

⁓ absolutely.

Maeve Webster (1:17:17)
Yeah

they do. Yes! Why? Has Halloumi not... ⁓ Very frustrating.

Mike Kostyo (1:17:18)
Agreed. Mine would be Halloumi. I just don't understand how Halloumi is not bigger. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Everybody else has caught on to it. Yeah. Well, this was fantastic. This was such a good conversation. If I had a voice for the end of this, I would have went even better. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Frank Beard (1:17:27)
That's funny.

Maeve Webster (1:17:29)
Agreed. Yes.

Well, yes, I will thank you on behalf of both of us, Frank. This was amazing. Thank you so much.

Frank Beard (1:17:35)
Yeah.

Maeve Webster (1:17:42)
Thank you for your time. Thank you for your insights. Thanks for being so open with us. We really appreciate it.

Frank Beard (1:17:47)
Yeah, this was a blast. I like your podcast format. It's just fun to listen to people just just talk about trends. And you know, it's like we all talk about these things privately and it's fun to hear what other people have to say. So thanks for inviting me on. And if anyone likes any of my opinions, just find me on LinkedIn. Z Tops drummer is not on there, so I'm pretty easy to find. and I don't worry, I'm not gonna ask Claude or Chat GPT to write my posts. So I promise I do write my own.

Mike Kostyo (1:17:50)
⁓ It is.

Ha ha.

I was gonna say, yeah.

Frank Beard (1:18:16)
You know, it's I'm not gonna use contrastive framing on everything. and if you wanna follow what I'm doing professionally, ⁓ conebstrategy dot com. And it's about it. Yeah. Just f you can find me on LinkedIn. But thanks for listening and thanks for having me on.